Israel’s ambassador to Italy: the “two peoples two states” solution is among those possible, but the EU and US should not try to impose anything

Rome – In our relations with Gaza, “we tried everything we could,” but in the end, the military response to the Oct. 7 attack “was not our choice.” While the conflict between Israel and Hamas is at one of its harshest moments, we spoke with Israel’s ambassador to Italy, Alon Bar, to understand, in particular, what the relations with European countries are like and, above all, what can be the way forward in the “after Gaza” and the possible role of the European Union, which, the diplomat says, must not try to “impose” its solutions, but start an open dialogue with all the players in the Region.

Eunews: Ambassador Bar, you represent Israel in Italy, you are, however, familiar with the European reality more generally. What is Israel’s relationship with Europe?

Bar: You are a friendly Region and an important political, economic, scientific, and cultural partner for Israel. We have great trade relations, so much so that we have also adopted most of the internal rules of the European Union and participate in many EU instruments. Relations are not the same with every EU country, it is a complex reality, but in general, beyond trade relations, we share many political and cultural values, such as democracy, rule of law, respect for human rights and international laws.

E.: Specifically with the institutions of the European Union, what is the relationship?.

B.: At this time of difficulty, we have mostly found a lot of solidarity and understanding in the European Parliament and the Council. With the Commission, we have had a lot of solidarity but also disagreements. We have seen some statements by Borrell (Josep Borrell, the High Representative for Foreign Policy, ed.) that are very critical of Israel but do not necessarily reflect the positions of many Member States. There are some countries, such as Spain and Ireland, that seem to be more sympathetic to the positions of the Palestinians, but, in general, I can say that there is dialogue, and we are working to find positive understandings.

E.: And how are relations with Italy, how do you judge the positions of the government, parliament, and even civil society?

B.: We have very good relations with the government, which has shown great solidarity, both from Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni and from important ministers such as Antonio Tajani or Guido Crosetto, who visited Israel last week. We also found sympathy from many other ministers, who also showed support toward Israel by participating in the recent demonstration against anti-Semitism. We also find solidarity in Parliament. In the Senate, an important motion was passed condemning the Hamas attack and the killings carried out, recognizing it as responsible for the deaths of Israeli civilians and the use of civilians in Gaza as human shields, and recognizing Israel’s right of self-defense. We also see criticism of Israel in your country, of course, but in general, I must say that relations are very good.

E.: A question that many people are asking, giving the most diverse answers, is why Hamas unleashed the October 7 attack, which was so violent, so huge in scale. What explanation do you have?

B.: No reason can justify what Hamas has committed. And it is not my job to understand why they made this choice. We are talking about fundamentalist terrorists whose stated goal in their founding charter is to destroy Israel and the Jews. They used money that came from the solidarity of international bodies and Israel for Gaza to finance their attacks, which have been going on for years. They are very cruel people who want to turn Israeli and Palestinian territory into an Islamic caliphate.

E.: Did Israel, a state that prides itself on belonging to the consensus of democratic states, not have another way to respond to the October 7 attack?

B.: For 15 years we tried everything. We pulled out of Gaza completely, their border with Egypt was open and tens of thousands of people from Gaza came to work in Israel every day, we tried to defend ourselves from missiles with the Iron Dome system and from physical penetrations with a barrier. But Hamas always preferred the path of military attack, of launching missiles.

We have not chosen this kind of response; over the years, particularly in the last 15, we have tried every alternative way of coexistence, but it has not worked.

Now the emergency is to eliminate Hamas’ ability to attack us from Gaza. In this effort, we do everything we can to distinguish civilians from Hamas terrorists, while the latter not only make no distinction but use Gaza civilians, including women and children, as human shields to protect themselves, hide in the schools, including UN schools, in the buildings of international bodies like UNRWA, in hospitals, in mosques, among people. And we must stop the violence of Hamas, which has killed, maimed, beheaded, raped, and taken unarmed Israeli civilians hostage. We have no other goal than this.

E.: This moment of war will end. What will happen next, and in particular, what role can the European Union play in the future when the time comes to reconstruct Gaza?.

B.: To begin with, the European Union must consult us: we Israelis but also the other players in the region – the Arab countries – and the representatives of the Palestinians, of course. The goal must be the reconstruction of a Gaza that is not a threat to Israel. If the European Union is willing to participate in this effort, we would be very happy to cooperate. But the European Union must not think that its 27 members can decide what will happen here and expect to impose it on us or on the Palestinians. There must be a dialogue not imposing anything on anyone. That is why the EU has to regain its credibility in its willingness to work in coordination with us, and it will become an important partner in creating a new regime for Gaza, living in peace and not aiming to threaten Israel.

E.: The European Union has reiterated its position of “two peoples and two states.” What do you think of this goal?.

B.: The debate on this issue is open in Israel. Some of our politicians are for it, and others are against. Undoubtedly, we do not want to control Gaza, and we believe that a civil administration should be established there with which we can dialogue. It certainly cannot be with Hamas, partly because they are against the “two peoples two states” solution.

We cannot accept solutions imposed by the United States or the European Union, but the “two peoples and two states” solution is definitely one of the possible ones. We have to talk about it. We have to have a confrontation that can lead to progress. Once we eliminate the danger posed by Hamas and establish a secure environment, it will be easier to make progress.